and as sister simone said, i don't think americans want to live this way. and they offer three choices and say, which one is the kind of society that you'd like to live in and most people chose the even more egalitarian setup. i think the issue is that people don't really understand how divided the society has become. >> chrystia, when you look at this graph, it shows that income inequality has grown. 275% gain in incomes since 1979. the bottom, watch this, the bottom 20% have had only 18% in income gains. is it that we are in denial or is it that we are just unaware because this happened so recently to us? >> well, i think we are in denial and i also think, look, there is a very powerful rhetorical machine which has made it its business to tell people that this isn't a problem. the other thing, which i think had a really, really big impact, was up until the crisis of 2008, the country was flooded with cheap consumer credit and so even as people lower down the income distribution, we're really getting hammered as long as they could borrow on their credit ca